TWiV 59: Dog bites virus

22 November 2009

TWiV_AA_200Hosts: Vincent Racaniello, Alan Dove, Rich Condit, Gustavo Palacios, and Mady Hornig

A TWiV panel of five considers the finding of Streptococcus pneumoniae in fatal H1N1 cases in Argentina, hysteria in the Ukraine over pandemic influenza, and human vaccinia infection after contact with a raccoon rabies vaccine bait.

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  • http://www.jordanmarkofthebeast.com/ Dr. Jordan

    I think the rabies bait talk needs to understand that despite the talk given here, there is actually not evidence present that the 20 years of pox vectored oral live rabies bait is effective.That is the very reason they are making the RAB ID program in order to look at the procedure with true inspection. The virues are different over the 50 years they have been doing this. I personally believe, we will find out that the wildlife rabies baiting program is indeed the very reason why we have endemic wildlife rabies problem in the US thank you very much, CDC and MERIAL. This case with the women in PA is CERTAINLY not the first case, a government worker, pregnant was loading bait and also transmitted the vaccinai virus. Pregnancy would also leave the patient immunosupressive. The woman in Penn, has what we have found IBS to be classic vacine induced disease, the gamma interferon increase that occurs with vaccination is one of the pathways to IBS and well just about all of our modern internal medicine cases today exist from the very use of vaccines and the corruption ad dysregulation the vaccine does to the patient. So, we have a patient whose immune system was damaged from the use of vaccines that then gets put onto drugs to further dysregulate her immune system now down to not be so active, then she can not even go blueberry picking without being further at risk from total INSANITY with use of unscientific and untested oral rabies bait. Step back and see, the entire problems are made from the hubris of man thinking vaccines of any type are the way to health. Vaccination is always, experimentation under the guise of health care delivery.
    Now, I hear the speaker ah ah ah trying to explain the success of the rabies baiting in Europe, THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THIS EVEN WORKS………there is little science behind any of this vaccine. The “funny” business going on with the womans immunesystem is BECAUSE OF PRIOR DYSREGULATION FORM VACCINES

  • A mom

    Can I ask what your qualifications are for the Dr. in your name?
    I appreciate your obvious passion about the subject of the Rabies baiting program used in the US.

    I would like to comment on your last statement about vaccines. Rabies is an awful disease. Fatal.
    Where I live the bat population usually shows 8% positive for the Rabies virus. Through education by local health agencies, most people know how to acknowledge when a bat is not acting “normal”……..if it is hanging out on your deck furniture in the heat of the day..not normal..
    if it lands on your head..not normal……don't touch it…if you do..bag it and take it for testing.
    My family was sleeping in a cabin where bats had entered. My 8 month old child woke crying and screaming….we saw the bats and a small mark on her leg. With the help of medical proffessionals and provincial medical experts it was decided that the Rabies vaccine would be offered to her. Not an easy decision. Did any bat actually get near her? Did it have Rabies? What effect would this vaccine have on a child under 1 year????
    She was given the vaccine and it is 8 years later. I can't say for certain if the bat made contact with her….but I do thank the scientists and Doctors that worked to make the vaccine available.
    What a wonderful thing that we live in countries ( Canada and The United States) where we have choices to protect our children against these diseases. Vaccines are very powerful.
    They can elicit many responses from people.
    It is a very different discussion if you are talking about deciding to get a vaccine for Rabies or for the H1N1 virus.

    I certainly hope that the Rabies baiting program or something like it will help to reduce the incidence of Rabies in the wild animal population.
    A mom

  • poxdoc

    My hesitation is explaining the success of wild rabies vaccination programs was because I was asked specifically what the evidence was that such programs were successful, and I did not have the actual experimental details at my fingertips. I don't like to make assertions unless I'm sure I have the facts straight.

    I have since reviewed the data concerning the wild rabies vaccination programs. The author correctly points out that over time, two different types of vaccine have been used in the wild, an infectious attenuated rabies virus and the recombinant poxvirus vaccines we spoke of in the podcast. The assays for distribution and effectiveness include survey of animals for a biomarker (tetracycline) incorporated into the vaccine, serosurvey of trapped animals, and epidemiological surveys of rabies incidence in both wild and domesticated animals. Numerous independent studies in Europe and North America over the past more than 20 years have repeatedly demonstrated that the wild vaccination programs are effective. One of the attenuated rabies strains used has some residual pathogenecity and a few cases of vaccine variant rabies in wild animals have been reported (9 cases over 16 years after distribution of 13 million baits in one study) there is no evidence for establishment of the vaccine strain in wildlife populations over the same period. Bottom line: the wild vaccination programs are safe and effective.

    Coincidentally, the latest issue of the journal Vaccine (vol 27, issue 51) is devoted entirely to rabies control including wild vaccination programs. It is rich with references to the facts.

    The author seems also to blame the patient's autoimmune disease on vaccines. While there are interesting theories and some experimental models that suggest that exposure to foreign antigens (which we all encounter every day) can trigger a cross reaction that results in autoimmunity in (presumably) predisposed individuals, as far as I know there is no compelling evidence that vaccination induces autoimmune disease.

  • poxdoc

    My hesitation is explaining the success of wild rabies vaccination programs was because I was asked specifically what the evidence was that such programs were successful, and I did not have the actual experimental details at my fingertips. I don't like to make assertions unless I'm sure I have the facts straight.

    I have since reviewed the data concerning the wild rabies vaccination programs. The author correctly points out that over time, two different types of vaccine have been used in the wild, an infectious attenuated rabies virus and the recombinant poxvirus vaccines we spoke of in the podcast. The assays for distribution and effectiveness include survey of animals for a biomarker (tetracycline) incorporated into the vaccine, serosurvey of trapped animals, and epidemiological surveys of rabies incidence in both wild and domesticated animals. Numerous independent studies in Europe and North America over the past more than 20 years have repeatedly demonstrated that the wild vaccination programs are effective. One of the attenuated rabies strains used has some residual pathogenecity and a few cases of vaccine variant rabies in wild animals have been reported (9 cases over 16 years after distribution of 13 million baits in one study) there is no evidence for establishment of the vaccine strain in wildlife populations over the same period. Bottom line: the wild vaccination programs are safe and effective.

    Coincidentally, the latest issue of the journal Vaccine (vol 27, issue 51) is devoted entirely to rabies control including wild vaccination programs. It is rich with references to the facts.

    The author seems also to blame the patient's autoimmune disease on vaccines. While there are interesting theories and some experimental models that suggest that exposure to foreign antigens (which we all encounter every day) can trigger a cross reaction that results in autoimmunity in (presumably) predisposed individuals, as far as I know there is no compelling evidence that vaccination induces autoimmune disease.

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